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  • Ryan Robinson

    @Brent-Karding

    I certainly have been asking the Lord to increase my passion for building up other though the gifts He has distributed. However, this has caused me to think about the following: There is a struggle today to use our gifts as we meet unless it’s done at a different time than when we meet.

    Doing this in a smaller group in a 1st century “living room” would have much easier to do v.26.

    This isn’t a “oh, if only we were doing house churches, everyone would be more biblical.” However, I think we wouldn’t be honest recognizing the different of context that is in Paul’s mind, and what is often understood as “church” in the 21st western world/mind.

    To show my cards… I have been saying a lot of what Chan has been saying (as of late) for years. However, I presently go to a huge baptist church… 🙂

    Just a few thoughts. 🙂

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  • Ryan Robinson

    @Andy-Hubert

    You’re way ahead of me. I’m tempted to take a day off of work (I have lots of time to use) to get this done. 🙂

    I briefly looked at your work through. Fun stuff. I tried to not dig in too much because I didn’t want it to effect my original work through.

    I’m excited to talk more about this.

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  • Ryan Robinson

    @Andy-Hubert said in Do christians speak in tongues today?:

    In the meantime, I’d like to give you (and anyone else reading along) the same encouragement to make an arc of 1Cor 14 and post it.

    Started right after I had asked you. 🙂

    However, the process is going much slower than I had originally desired.

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  • Ryan Robinson

    @Andy-Hubert said in Do christians speak in tongues today?:

    In Corinth, this gift’s purpose was to build the Body (as with all spiritual gifts; 1Cor 14:4-5), and in particular to reach non-believers (1Cor 14:22; perhaps alluding to Jews demanding a sign in 1Cor 1:22). On the other hand, in Acts it was to testify to the giving of the Spirit.

    I have another question that has jumped out has I spent some more time in the text. Here is the text:

    1 Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy. 2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 3 On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. 4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church. 5 Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.
    1 Corinthians 14:1-5 (emphasis added)

    • In saying that the purpose of the gift is to build up the body, are you saying if we are gathered together in the assembly? OR Always?
    • And if you are saying always, how are you reading statements like 2a and 4a (bolded above⬆)?
    • Do you think that Paul is saying these things with pejorative undertones?
    • Do you think something in the larger context qualifies how one would naturally* read this passage (here is how I take the natural reading: because the tongue/language is spoken to God, the person speaking it is in fact building themselves up just like prayer in one’s normal language would)?

    *of course in my mind - maybe because of my upbringing in the faith - it’s always hard to notice your glasses when you have worn them your whole life

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  • Ryan Robinson

    @Andy-Hubert

    Did you Arc (or another method) 1 Corinthians 14? I’d love to see how you’re putting some of that together.

    I started to spend some time in that chapter and thought it could be helpful to compare if you had.

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  • Ryan Robinson

    @Andy-Hubert
    Thanks for the response. I’m going to have to work through the Acts passages a little more before responding. Also, I want to respond more to the last points you made. However, I’m going to do it all at once.

    Also! Notice my first question was wrong. I said Jesus gave these gifts until the return of Jesus. I was recalling the passage incorrectly. Rather it says that Jesus gave these gifts until we all attain to the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the Son of God and then some further appositional descriptions of those things. And to show my cards, I don’t think that has happened yet. 🙂

    Forgive me for the misquote. Question still valid yet better clarified.

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  • Ryan Robinson

    @Andy-Hubert

    I have a lot to think through before responding to much of this. However, there is a question and a comment I’d like to ask/share:

    • You said that we can be certain some “gift-positions” have ceased. On what biblical grounds can we have this certainty? And how do you read Ephesians 4:11-16 which says The Messiah has given these gift-positions are for the maturing of the body until Jesus returns?

    • It seems interesting to me the things you state firmly (things I would say aren’t so firm) and other things a little more loosely. E.g., The plain purpose of such incidents is to testify to the giving of the Spirit of God (each verse you reference, I think would be quite a stretch to say is speaking to the purpose of God pouring out the Holy Spirit) compared to it is perhaps something that happened in other churches (do you really think it was only happening in Corinth? I grant that we don’t know but it is a gift of the Holy Spirit. Do you think teaching perhaps might not have been present in Ephesus?).

    I hope that the question/comment come across the right way, especially the latter. I know we are all in this for Jesus.

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  • Ryan Robinson

    @Brandon-Stevens Dive in. Allow yourself to be “wrong.” You will get helpful feedback from the instructors. That feedback will help you get better. It’s an art and a science. You gotta get your hands messy, and learn from others that have been doing it longer.

    Could you image riding a bike perfect the first time you put your feet to the peddle? It takes time. Just go for it! ☺

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  • Ryan Robinson

    @Andy-Hubert I think that is fair.

    I think the normal progression today is 2 then 1 then (maybe) 3. And my experience is that many stop at 1 & 2 since 3 often gets more messy and less of an ability to be black and white…and often eschatology comes up…🏃 🏃

    I mean, you live in Israel. How does the Mosaic Covenant relate to the New Covenant for Gentiles? What about for Jews? 😉

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  • Ryan Robinson

    @Brent-Karding The image strongly represents my thoughts on the topic. I practically flatten Biblical Theology and exegesis. I think that just a matter of perspective.

    However, I would say that this image puts biblical theology before Systematic. Which again, already showing my cards, I say ✊ 👍 To me, this has enormous ramifications.

    You said, “My exegesis of a particular passage should be controlled by what other Scriptures say on that topic, as well as on an accurate understanding of the storyline of Scripture (not forgetting exegetically-based historical theology as well).”

    This statement made me pause. I’d love to hear more thoughts on what that looks like.

    I immediately thought, well, you control one (or more) passage by another passage that you might like more because of your system rather than letting the author communicate what the author was conveying. I think you can understand where I am coming from on that possibly being a slippery slope of dogmatism over exegetical honesty.

    Anyways, lots there! Appreciate the discussion!

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