Is Pole Dancing To Men Audience A Sin?

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@Mildred-Codilla said in Is Pole Dancing To Men Audience A Sin?:

But can you help me how to clarify to them the difference between [1] repenting by giving up their evil lifestyle like pole dancing and [2] not being saved by “works”, since to stop pole dancing looks like good “works” [3] having a righteousness that is not our own, but that of Jesus Christ.

That’s a good question, Mildred! Some people have been confused about that and thought that insisting on repentance is insisting on a “work” for salvation.

I would say that the many passages that insist on repentance show that it is required for salvation and not optional (Matt 4:17; 9:13; Luke 13:3, 5; Acts 2:38; 5:31; 17:30).

But repentance and faith sometimes appear together in Scripture; thus I would call them two sides of the same coin. Genuine faith is a repenting faith, and genuine repentance is a believing repentance.

For example, Jesus’ first sermon, in Mark 1:15, was "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand; repent and believe in the gospel.” And in Acts 20:21, Paul summarizes what he taught everyone as a message “of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.”

I like to illustrate it like this: You can’t turn toward God without turning away from sin, since they are opposites. To turn to God necessarily involves turning from sin. If you are facing east and you want to face west, you must turn from facing east - you can’t look both east and west at the same time!

can you please suggest what are the specific things to believe or trust in order for her to be saved? I have an idea that it’s only to trust Christ’s cross, forgiveness and righteousness, but are there still more in what a person is going to trust in order to be saved kuya?

You are right about trusting in Christ. The message of the gospel is to turn from sin in faith to Christ, trusting him alone for forgiveness. But before someone can do that, they must know that Christ died and rose again - the gospel includes that historical fact. Of course, saving faith isn’t just acknowledging Christ’s death and resurrection; it is trusting him personally and completely. The message is simple: “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved” (Acts 16:31).

@Mildred-Codilla

You’re very welcome, Mildred.

If anyone else here has anything to add, please go ahead!

@Mildred-Codilla said in Is Pole Dancing To Men Audience A Sin?:

These are my questions ABOUT INSISTING REPENTANCE:

1. Is it okay to use Luke 14:25-33 to make them understand what repentance looks like?
2. Is it okay to mention that repentance is “laying aside every weight (encumbrance), and sin which clings so closely IN ORDER TO run the race of faith in Jesus [Hebrews 12:1] ?
3. It’s true that not all sins that we repented of can directly be stopped, can you give your idea on sins that can directly stop by the working of God when a person GENUINELY repents? Is it more on the lifestyle at first, then sanctification will follow, meaning other sins (that are not a lifestyle but sin in the inside) will be stopped from glory to glory (2 Cor.3:18)?
4. What verses in the Bible commands the genuinely converted believers to keep on repenting after conversion?

I’ll try to answer each question, Mildred! They are good questions.

1. Yes, Luke 14:25-33 is a perfect passage to show what following Christ costs. He is clear that if you don’t forsake all you have, you cannot be his disciple - i.e. you cannot become a Christian.
2. No, Hebrews 12:1 isn’t a good verse to use for this since it was written to exhort believers to turn away from their sin, clinging to Christ.
3. Repentance is more of a mindset, of a change of mind. It is indeed from the inside out, rather than from the outside in. There’s no list of sins that can be directly stopped and never sinned again; sanctification is a gradual process, which is why we need to keep repenting over and over again as we grow in obedience.
4. Hebrews 12:1, which you quoted, refers to the need for believers to keep repenting of sin. See also Ephesians 4:20-24; Romans 6:12-14; 8:13. None of those verses use the word “repentance,” but that is the reality presented there. I’ll discuss them now:

“But that [referring back to the sins of verses 17-19] is not the way you learned Christ!— 21 assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, 22 to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, 23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, 24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness” (Ephesians 4:20-24).

Putting “off your old self” (v. 22) refers to turning away from sin, stopping living the way you used to before you were saved.

“Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace” (Rom 6:12-14).

Verse 12 is talking about turning away from performing sinful actions, but rather performing righteous actions.

“For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live” (Rom 8:13).

This also refers to a lifestyle of repentance, of not continuing in sin but killing the deeds of the sinful nature, stopping sinful actions.

It’s very helpful kuya.

Can you give an idea why they device POLE as the main instrument for their dancing? How can I expose the darkness they’re into? (Specifically,how can I tell them,through Smallgroup Biblestudy, how evil their dancing or their work is?)

@Brent-Karding said in Is Pole Dancing To Men Audience A Sin?:

One suggestion for exposing the darkness is not to show them specifically why pole dancing is wrong, but simply to share the gospel with them - to show them the darkness and misery of sin (they will have some experience of this, I’m sure), the punishment for sin, and the hope of the gospel.

What if they do not know that pole dancing is a sin kuya?..right now, they are thinking of it as a performance like dancing ballet or singing on a stage. Also, they are thinking of it as a job, their only source of income for survival.

@Mildred-Codilla said in Is Pole Dancing To Men Audience A Sin?:

What if they do not know that pole dancing is a sin kuya?..right now, they are thinking of it as a performance like dancing ballet or singing on a stage. Also, they are thinking of it as a job, their only source of income for survival.

I would suggest that they do know it is a sin, even if they are resisting that knowledge and denying that it is sinful. I say that because of our God-given conscience and awareness of God’s laws, as Romans 1:32 and 2:15 say (even though sexual sin isn’t specifically mentioned there):

“Though they know God’s righteous decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.”

“The work of the law is written on their hearts.”

As far as being their only income for survival, that is a much more difficult matter. That requires much prayer and wisdom for you advising them. It would be different if a woman professes faith in Christ; then you can help her live by faith and trust Jesus’ promises.

I would encourage you not to lessen God’s requirement of repentance for someone to be saved (Mark 1:4-5, 14-15; Luke 5:32; 13:3; Acts 17:30; 20:21, etc.). If someone isn’t willing to give up everything to follow Jesus, they cannot be his disciple (Luke 14:25-33), and we cannot make salvation “easier” than that. God’s Spirit is powerful to convert people, even though salvation is “hard” in this way!

@Brent-Karding said in Is Pole Dancing To Men Audience A Sin?:

As far as being their only income for survival, that is a much more difficult matter. That requires much prayer and wisdom for you advising them. It would be different if a woman professes faith in Christ; then you can help her live by faith and trust Jesus’ promises.

I’m not sure I understand this kuya. Sorry my comprehension in English is not that strong.

They’re the ones who said that pole dancing is their only source of income kuya.

@Mildred-Codilla said in Is Pole Dancing To Men Audience A Sin?:

I’m not sure I understand this kuya. Sorry my comprehension in English is not that strong.
They’re the ones who said that pole dancing is their only source of income kuya.

Sorry, Mildred! Yes, I understand that it is the women you’re trying to help who say that pole dancing is their only source of income - I was just pointing out that if any of them trust Christ as their Saviour, you could help encourage them to live by faith, to turn from a sinful lifestyle in obedience to Jesus.

But an unbeliever can’t live by faith; what those women need to do is believe the gospel and repent of their sin. If they won’t give up pole dancing, they cannot be Jesus’ disciple. That’s why I quoted from Mark 1, Luke 5 and 13, etc. The message of the gospel, faith in Christ and repentance toward God, needs to be your message. God has the power to draw people to himself through that!

@Brent-Karding said in Is Pole Dancing To Men Audience A Sin?:

if any of them trust Christ as their Saviour, you could help encourage them to live by faith, to turn from a sinful lifestyle in obedience to Jesus.

Kuya, as I have reviewed our conversation earlier at this post, I have noticed that you suggested that I will not tell them that pole dancing is wrong. So please help me by suggesting how I can encourage the women lo live by faith (with specific and practical examples of how to do it, specially in relation to their current lifestyle) and how to repent or turn from their sinful lifestyle to Obedience to Christ (also with practical examples of repentance that is related to their way of living).

I believe this one above that I mentioned is the response to the Gospel preached that Is needed for salvation.

@Brent-Karding said in Is Pole Dancing To Men Audience A Sin?:

(a) Of course, all people know right and wrong through their consciences, but these can become defiled. So it would be right to tell them that pole dancing is wrong, even if they don’t understand why, or say that they don’t understand why.

(b) So these women should know that if a pole dancer trusts Christ as her Saviour, she is required to stop pole dancing. You can’t live that way and be a Christian, as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. Jesus told the rich young man to sell all that he had, but he refused - and Jesus didn’t run begging after him! The rich young man would not repent of his love of money, and therefore he could not be saved. Salvation requires repentance. That might “stop” them from getting saved, but we can’t change God’s requirements for salvation, of course. God’s power can overcome these obstacles in a sinner’s heart, making Christ more desirable than sin - and I encourage you to pray toward that end.

But encouraging women to live by faith can be done if a pole dancer does trust Christ. She can be encouraged with God’s promises of provision, and joy, with God as her Father - but only a believer can be encouraged like this. A non-Christian has no promises of provision and joy, only of eternal punishment if they don’t repent.

(A) okay kuya, that’s clear to me now. I will apply this by telling others the good news including telling them what is wrong in their lifestyle that needs to be given up in response to the Gospel.

(B) i understand this now kuya. But can you help me how to clarify to them the difference between [1] repenting by giving up their evil lifestyle like pole dancing and [2] not being saved by “works”, since to stop pole dancing looks like good “works” [3] having a righteousness that is not our own, but that of Jesus Christ.

can you please suggest what are the specific things to believe or trust in order for her to be saved? I have an idea that it’s only to trust Christ’s cross, forgiveness and righteousness, but are there still more in what a person is going to trust in order to be saved kuya?

@Brent-Karding everything is clear to me now kuya. The answers you have given are very helpful. Thank you so much kuya!

@Brent-Karding said in Is Pole Dancing To Men Audience A Sin?:

I would encourage you not to lessen God’s requirement of repentance for someone to be saved (Mark 1:4-5, 14-15; Luke 5:32; 13:3; Acts 17:30; 20:21, etc.). If someone isn’t willing to give up everything to follow Jesus, they cannot be his disciple (Luke 14:25-33), and we cannot make salvation “easier” than that. God’s Spirit is powerful to convert people, even though salvation is “hard” in this way!

As I have reviewed this discussion kuya, I formed questions in my mind. I hope it’s still okay to add questions to this post kuya.
It is new to me/us to really require repentance from people, I mean, we tell them to repent but we don’t really know what to say to show them how to repent. I have realized that we tell people the Gospel in a light manner (which is a wrong way to proclaim the Gospel) by not INSISTING them to repent. We just told them the believing/trusting part, but not the meaning of the repenting part.
In light of all these kuya, we are ready to tell others not just to believe the Gospel but to repent of their sins. But I would like to do it in a correct way (what the Bible says), so I am asking for help from you and our brethren (who will read this post). These are my questions ABOUT INSISTING REPENTANCE:

1. Is it okay to use Luke 14:25-33 to make them understand what repentance looks like?
2. Is it okay to mention that repentance is “laying aside every weight (encumbrance), and sin which clings so closely IN ORDER TO run the race of faith in Jesus [Hebrews 12:1] ?
3. It’s true that not all sins that we repented of can directly be stopped, can you give your idea on sins that can directly stop by the working of God when a person GENUINELY repents? Is it more on the lifestyle at first, then sanctification will follow, meaning other sins (that are not a lifestyle but sin in the inside) will be stopped from glory to glory (2 Cor.3:18)?
4. What verses in the Bible commands the genuinely converted believers to keep on repenting after conversion?