Thanks @Brent-Karding - those are helpful thoughts!

@John-Mark-Steel said in Ecclesiastes 5:8-9:

Am I on the right track here with these verses? I’m especially interested in the relationships between ideas in these verses.

Well, when I studied these verses a few years ago, I saw that commentators call them very difficult to interpret, if not impossible to do so with 100% confidence! But it looks like they are surely talking about injustice,

It looks like the Preacher is saying, “Don’t be amazed when you see governmental injustice, because of the many layers of authority there.” Butt-covering will always be a reality in the structure of authority in organizations. Bureaucracy naturally leads to injustice - that’s the “because.”

So I think he is calling us to acknowledge the “vanity” (impossible-to-understandness) of corruption in government. About the laziness, the protection of bad workers, the layers of authority that work against efficiency and ensure some level of mismanagement, the Preacher says, “Of course it’s that way! Always has been, always will.” This author isn’t holding his breath for improvement – not that we shouldn’t try to root out corruption; it’s just that, as Derek Kidern put it, “Qoheleth … knows what is in man" (The Message of Ecclesiastes, 55).

And I really like your comparison of these verses to modern events, and to God’s good gift of government that is twisted by sinful people, just like all his good gifts.

Cabeza:

Esta historia me muestra deseo (desesperado y necesario), finalmente y correctamente saciado. Debo pensar de esta manera sobre el diseño de Dios: ¡Es algo lindo! Debo llamar a la relación íntima–dentro del matrimonio–lo que Dios la llama: ¡Buena! Debo pensar así.

Corazón:

Al leer esta historia, debo sentir satisfacción cuando la esposa por fin encuentra a su amado.

Este pasaje trata el tema de la relación entre una esposa y su esposo. Como casado, ¿Estoy enfocado en mi esposa y en nadie más? Si estoy soltero o soltera, ¿Encuentro toda mi satisfacción en Cristo? Nuestra sexualidad es parte de nuestra humanidad y el matrimonio es la voluntad de Dios para la mayoría de los cristianos; sin embargo, el matrimonio en sí no satisface. El matrimonio refleja la relacion entre Cristo y su esposa y solo esa relación puede completamente satisfacer.

Manos:

Si bien este tema es un tema de corazón, está intrinsicamente conectado con nuestros cuerpos, que son o instrumentos de justicia o instrumentos de injusticia. ¿Qué estoy haciendo con mis manos? ¿Qué estoy haciendo con mis ojos? ¿Qué leo? ¿Qué veo? ¿Qué hago con mis otros miembros? ¿Estoy despertando deseos fuera de los límites del plan de Dios?

Conclusión:

“Comenté anoche que una relación genuina con Cristo no es meramente cuestión de principios. Debe ser personal o no tendrá ningún valor dos centímetros más allá de nuestras cabezas. Para que sea religión personal y relación personal tienes que realmente conocerle. No solo saber lo que él ha hecho para los pecadores en general, sino lo que está haciendo, ahora mismo (¡!) para ti. ¿Lo conoces de corazón, a él, ahora mismo, hoy? ¿Como tu Salvador, tu Señor y tu mejor amigo de alma? «Yo soy suya y mi amado es mío». Repetidamente la sunamita se refiere a su joven esposo como a «él que ama mi alma». ¿Y qué hizo ella al encontrarlo? «Lo agarré y no quise soltarlo» (Cantares 3:4). Deberíamos estar seguros que entendamos bien ese asunto antes de pasar a la eternidad.”

(Mark Minnick, carta pastoral, 18 mayo 2020)

@Ari-Constancio said in "Proper" behavior in church:

@Brent-Karding Thank you! Would you deem appropriate to speak also of Ecclesiastes 5:1-7, as you’ve done a live video on “fearing God in corporate worship” over this passage?

Yes, I had forgotten about that passage! That is one of the best ones, since it talks about fearing God and listening when you worship publicly. Thanks for reminding me!

@Mildred-Codilla said in Is Pole Dancing To Men Audience A Sin?:

These are my questions ABOUT INSISTING REPENTANCE:

Is it okay to use Luke 14:25-33 to make them understand what repentance looks like? Is it okay to mention that repentance is “laying aside every weight (encumbrance), and sin which clings so closely IN ORDER TO run the race of faith in Jesus [Hebrews 12:1] ? It’s true that not all sins that we repented of can directly be stopped, can you give your idea on sins that can directly stop by the working of God when a person GENUINELY repents? Is it more on the lifestyle at first, then sanctification will follow, meaning other sins (that are not a lifestyle but sin in the inside) will be stopped from glory to glory (2 Cor.3:18)? What verses in the Bible commands the genuinely converted believers to keep on repenting after conversion?

I’ll try to answer each question, Mildred! They are good questions.

Yes, Luke 14:25-33 is a perfect passage to show what following Christ costs. He is clear that if you don’t forsake all you have, you cannot be his disciple - i.e. you cannot become a Christian. No, Hebrews 12:1 isn’t a good verse to use for this since it was written to exhort believers to turn away from their sin, clinging to Christ. Repentance is more of a mindset, of a change of mind. It is indeed from the inside out, rather than from the outside in. There’s no list of sins that can be directly stopped and never sinned again; sanctification is a gradual process, which is why we need to keep repenting over and over again as we grow in obedience. Hebrews 12:1, which you quoted, refers to the need for believers to keep repenting of sin. See also Ephesians 4:20-24; Romans 6:12-14; 8:13. None of those verses use the word “repentance,” but that is the reality presented there. I’ll discuss them now:

“But that [referring back to the sins of verses 17-19] is not the way you learned Christ!— 21 assuming that you have heard about him and were taught in him, as the truth is in Jesus, 22 to put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, 23 and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, 24 and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness” (Ephesians 4:20-24).

Putting “off your old self” (v. 22) refers to turning away from sin, stopping living the way you used to before you were saved.

“Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions. 13 Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14 For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace” (Rom 6:12-14).

Verse 12 is talking about turning away from performing sinful actions, but rather performing righteous actions.

“For if you live according to the flesh you will die, but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live” (Rom 8:13).

This also refers to a lifestyle of repentance, of not continuing in sin but killing the deeds of the sinful nature, stopping sinful actions.

@oy-ei said in Can I have full assurance of Salvation?:

Following the three types of knowledge proposed by Craig and Moreland (footnote 1), we have knowledge by acquaintance, know-how and propositional knowledge. I would say that the presence of the Holy Spirit in a believer prompts somehow knowledge of God (i.e his faithfulness) across all these categories of knowledge.

Hi @oy-ei,

This is a good and helpful discussion! Thank you, @Oscar-Marti, for your helpful input already. I thought I’d just respond to this one paragraph.

I haven’t read Craig and Moreland on this, but I think that especially the first and third category of knowledge fits with the testimony of Scripture, and that we can see the work of the Holy Spirit in both as well.

For “knowledge by acquaintance,” we should start with the fact that fundamentally it is God who knows us (Gal 4:9). And Jesus described eternal life itself in terms of knowing God: “This is life eternal, that they know you” (John 17:3). This knowledge is deeply experiential and not merely an assent to propositions. It is not less than propositional knowledge about God, but it is certainly more.

The clearest passage on the Spirit’s work in knowing God is perhaps 2 Corinthians 3:12-18, especially vv. 16-18.

For “propositional knowledge,” there is no such thing as knowing God in saving way without understanding and believing propositions about God (see Rom 1:19-20, which shows that all people know God through creation, but this knowledge is not salvific). For example, the truth that “Jesus is the Christ” is a proposition, a truth claim; anyone who “denies” this proposition “is the antichrist” and a “liar” (1 John 2:22).

The Spirit’s work can be seen in that knowing Jesus as the crucified Savior is the work of the Spirit (Gal 3:1-3). To know God truly is the work of the Spirit (1 Cor 2:9-14).

So I would say that for a believer to be assured of this salvation involves the necessity of a) deepening his fellowship with God, growing in the knowledge of Christ (1 Pet 3:18), and b) deepening his knowledge of the propositional truth of the Scriptures, whose burden is to reveal God to us in the face of Jesus Christ (Heb 1:1-2; 2 Cor 4:6).

That makes sense. Thanks @Brent-Karding

Hi @Koko!

Thanks for uploading an image of your phrase! You did very well at the First Pass; there is only one small place it could be improved: “Of death” (14c) should be divided, just like you did with “of the shadow.”

Otherwise, superb work!

Next time, btw, you can upload another phrase to the Passage Discussions section of the forum. I’ll be glad to critique again!

I am wondering if you have recently updated or made changes to the phrasing module. I never noticed this before, but today I went into a phrasing analysis of a passage I had done previously. After making a couple of changes, I exported the passage to a PDF, but when I did, the lines showing subordination no longer lined up with the text. Is anyone else noticing this problem?

That’s a helpful suggestion. I think it would require a lot of coding to accomplish, though. @Andy-Hubert, what do you think?

Thank you!

1 TESALONICENSES 4:13-18

Era el deseo de Pablo que los creyentes en Tesalónica no desconocieran lo referente a quienes han muerto en Cristo. Tal incertidumbre o ignorancia resulta en el mismo tipo de tristeza que sufren aquellos que viven sin la esperanza en las promesas de Dios en Cristo Jesús.

Sin duda, el uso de la palabra “dormir” (κοιμωμένων) implica que la persona ha de despertar, por lo que desde ya podemos inferir que el tema de la resurrección está a la vista. Esta es la misma manera en que en el Antiguo Testamento (AT) se hace referencia a Moisés cuando se dice que fue “dormir con sus padres” en Deuteronomio 31:16, describiendo su muerte. De igual manera sucede con David, de quien se dice que al cumplirse sus días reposaría con sus padres (2 Samuel 7:12) al momento de Dios establecer Su pacto con él.

La certeza de la resurrección para vida está vinculada a la realidad de la muerte y resurrección de Cristo. Y es tal, que el apóstol Pablo tiernamente hace referencia a los que han muerto como los que durmieron.

PERO SÍ HAY UN RAPTO

Gracias, por la respuesta.

Indonesian